Poulin says she would still use the rod

Journal-Pioneer/October 2, 2002
By Andy Walker

Charlottetown -- The introduction of testimony is now over at one of the most sensational trials in the history of the province. Lucille Poulin, a 78-year-old former nun, was cross-examined for three hours by Crown lawyer Darrell Coombs Tuesday to bring an end to 12 days of testimony that included stories of almost daily beatings and possible poison attempts. Poulin is charged with assaulting five children at a rural Queens County religious commune she leads.

Coombs and defence lawyer Zia Chishti will make their closing arguments and summations Oct. 15.

During the cross-examination, Coombs asked Poulin whether she had ever considered taking the punishment she inflicted on the children herself, in the same way Jesus Christ did as he died for the sins of mankind. Poulin answered that was not what Gd had called her to do.

However, Coombs persisted, saying she could have told the children she would inflict punishment on herself if they did not obey. Poulin replied she was not Jesus and she said inflicting punishment on herself would be witchcraft.

The 78-year-old former nun also denied a suggestion from the Crown lawyer she was trying to train the children to behave rather than teaching them the way of the Lord.

When asked if there were other methods that could have been used to discipline the children, she replied she had no recourse other than the word of God.

Poulin said she never examined any of the children after they were spanked with the rod, but maintained they were not physically hurt by the beatings.

She said the children who testified on the stand of almost daily beatings (which they said intensified after a child died in December of 1999) were lying under oath and suffering delusions.

When Coombs asked if she might be the one suffering delusions, she said she had received the light of God.

The Crown lawyer asked if she had ever considered the emotional damage the beatings inflicted on the children.

She said "flesh ties" were discouraged because a Bible verse indicates, "Call no one father because you have only one father in heaven."

Poulin said all children are born wicked and have a natural tendency to lie and steal. She said she could not believe the lies the five children told during the trial, saying of one boy, "The devil is his father."

Poulin said the youth were "seduced" by their adult siblings into leaving the commune and partaking in the evil ways of the world. If children were put in her care again, she told Coombs she would continue to use the rod, even if it was against the law. She said it is better to obey God than man.

She told Coombs using the rod bothered her at first, but she felt she was called to do it by God and got used to the method of punishment. She said she was told by God how much food each member of the commune would receive so they would "not make the belly their God and refuse to serve the Lord".

Monday's Testimony

During the trial Monday, on her first day of testimony, Poulin testified she considers herself a prophet because she preaches the word of God.

With a worn Bible in her hands, she quoted various passages she claimed indicated children who were not disciplined would be destined to spend eternity in hell. She admitted she had a struggle with using the paddle, but said she felt called to obey God's word.

She said God told her such punishment was necessary to bring children to the knowledge of the grace of God and the plan He has for them.

The former nun said there would be a "complete sense of calm" in the commune after the rod was administered. She said she wanted to make sure she approached the situation with the proper spirit and never in anger.

She also children were asked to lie sideways on the chair and never have their head stuck through the bars. The commune leader said there was also a prayer session after each beating and she said many times the children would leave happy, knowing they had paid for their wrongdoing.

Poulin said there was only one child that was ever given more than 14 strokes. During the Crown testimony, the five children removed from the compound in July of 2001 told stories of beatings of up to 39 times with the rod. That number was considered the maximum because it was the number of whippings Jesus Christ received before his death.

She told the court the rod was reserved for such offenses as lying, disturbing fellow students during home schooling or bed-wetting.

Poulin told the court she became a nun at the age of 15 but spent much of her life searching for God and was afraid she was going to hell.

She described life in the commune as a relationship of genuine love between the members.